kore_logs | And the lights go out...

"Unusual." She murmurs watching out over the sea. She can smell the salt and the water. The soft splash of a fish reaches her ears. If she can catch it, that'll be tomorrow's dinner.

Brigid thinks about how to answer his question. "My kind have a tendency to be insular and removed in certain aspects. Nothing too blatant - we aren't weirdo survivalists or anything like that - but enough that sometimes it's looked at a bit differently." She shrugs, her bomber jacket creaking softly. "It would be a sign that there were my kind in your world, that's all."

"I fear such things would not be possible where I am from, not at present." Daneel is almost apologetic. "'Your kind,' as you put it, are unlikely to exist in the reality I come from. This is the case for many individuals I have met here."

He's not sure whether that's good or bad; it throws so many variables into calculating the path of humanity -- already an impossible task -- that the Zeroth Law would become even more difficult than it already is.

"It's just interesting. I hope it would mean that we haven't died out completely, but become so integrated that no one sees us as anything different, but I doubt it." The Alphas would never allow it. Neither would the Emissaries. It's something to think about, though.

"I'm sorry. I didn't mean to grill you about things. I just find the future as fascinating as the past, sometimes. Though, I'm much more well-versed in history." Then, she thinks about something. "Is us being without power going to be an issue for you?"

Daneel shakes his head. "No. I have an internal power source which should last for many centuries before it needs to be replaced."

Which is, honestly, something that is mildly disconcerting. There's a guilt in that; he possesses something that could help many people here, but he's powerless to give it to them.

"I would gladly allow it to be removed if it could provide protection to those here, and perhaps escape, but... circumstances do not allow me to make that decision."

"But wouldn't removing that irreparably damage you?" Brigid asks, concerned. "Yes, we're without power, but that's no reason to destroy one of the people staying here."

She believes him a person, because to her, he is.

She shakes her head. "I'm not sure I'd be comfortable with you making such a sacrifice, even if you could. I don't know any martyrs and am in no hurry to meet any, either."

All life is sacred, after all.

"Without a flow of power to my brain, I would cease functioning," Daneel confirms, "and yes, it would be permanent. Another positronic brain might be fitted into my body, but it would not be... myself. There are too many variables involved; as no two organic brains might be identical, neither or no two positronic brains. Even if it could have my memories, the new robot would not be myself. It would mean my... death, if you prefer."

Not an easy word for him to use regarding himself.

"As it is, I have been prevented from taking such an action."

She shivers. Not out of cold, but out of how clinical he sounds. She tightens her arms on her legs and just listens as he speaks.

"Wait. Prevented?" Brigid twists her head to look at him. "How?" She's pretty sure their lack of technology would mean that they couldn't remove it anyway, but prevention sounds a bit more ominous.

"When I arrived, I was informed that any attempt to remove any part of me would result in the death of every individual here," Daneel says. He's... not eager to speak of this. It's... uncomfortable to have his existence so directly tied to the welfare of humans. As preference, he would mention this to no one unless necessary. At the same time... he recognises it isn't something that should be hidden.

"I recognise that this might be a bluff on their part, but it is not a risk I am willing to take."

Her eyes widen and she looks at him. "I'm so, so sorry they did that to you." Brigid actually means it. She hates to see anyone bullied and that's exactly what is happening here. They're bullying this poor guy into being responsible for everyone's lives.

"No, I wouldn't want you to take the risk either. Not just out of self-preservation, but because it isn't fair to ask you to die so the rest of us can be more comfortable." Brigid knows they can survive without electricity. Not well, but they can survive.

"If I could be assured that such a sacrifice would ensure the safety, and perhaps the escape of everyone here, I would gladly make that sacrifice." Daneel is solemn as he says it. "Mere comfort, perhaps, is not worth a trade for what I can do if I'm functioning."

But he can't, and he won't, and he only worries a little about the possibility of someone taking it upon themselves to salvage parts from him in the case of his meeting with an accident; under normal circumstances, that would be wise, but not here.

"I do not... wish... to cease functioning, but neither could I selfishly withhold what might be mine to give. It is irrelevant, in any case."

Edited 2013-08-26 19:09 (UTC)

She shakes her head and reaches out to touch his arm. "No. Even if there is a guarantee of leaving, I don't think you should sacrifice yourself. There is always a better way." Brigid isn't going to allow anyone to sacrifice themselves for some ridiculous notion that it's the only way out. There's always another way.

Sighing, she pulls her hand back. "Do we even know where the power was coming from? Could it be as simple as an overloaded grid or something?" She's not an electrical engineer but Carlos had said something like that once.

"I admit I'm not familiar enough with the structure of power grids of the appropriate time period to say, one way or the other."

It's an unfortunate reality of being so far ahead of so many people here. The touch on his arm, too, is a reminder of such different cultural norms. It's a gesture one would make towards an equal, a fellow person. He knows he's more approachable than a standard robot just because of his appearance, but this is something more than that.

It's... pleasant.

"You do not have experience with robots, I suspect."

She sighs. "Let me guess, the power grid here is ancient history for you?" It's mocking herself, really. She knows that no one likes history the way she does. Not even those in her history classes get as enthusiastic as she does.

Brigid cocks her head to the side. "No. They aren't prevalent in my world, except for a few things, like assembly lines, and things like that. Why?

"I am from 3740. Many advances have been made in many fields. I'm certain some things remain the same, but certainly not all of it."

That is, if they could even find where the grid might be. He still holds out hope that power will return.

"You treat me as you would another human. Many people here do, but even so, I have met few people so comfortable so quickly as to touch me casually, as you just did." Daneel is looking at her curiously. "I find this interesting."

She blinks. She knows he's from the future but that's a bit further than she'd been expecting. "Wow, so this has got to be frustratingly provincial for you." But it's also fascinating. What happened in the world in that millennia? What changes were wrought and how did society change?

Brigid actually blushes. She forgets that not everyone is as tactile as she is. "I... I'm sorry. I forget not everyone is as tactile as I am. I only meant it as a gesture of comfort, that's all."

"There is no need to apologise," Daneel says, at once. "I am not offended. It is merely an observation. I am glad that you are comfortable with me to this degree. I would be... distressed, if it were otherwise. This is merely not what I am accustomed to. That does not mean it is not pleasant."

Brigid just cocks her head to the side. "Why wouldn't I be comfortable with you?" It's an honest question. "There are werejaguars and hunters and archangels here." Not to mention the pair of werewolves. "Plus regular humans that can bring people back from the dead. You're just... a different aspect of the people here. I'd do the same for them."

She's honest about that.

"That is a theory that I've been working on, in fact." That she's reaffirmed it is doubly interesting. "My programming accounts for humans, and then robots to serve them. I'm having to redefine my place."

Daneel considers his phrasing for a moment. "If I must redefine "human" to mean any sentient being, then that includes myself. It makes me a person. Though this is not an unsurprising idea for most people here, for me to be a true equal... it is surprising to me."

She understands having to redefine your life. She's been doing it a lot lately. It's frustrating and terrifying. At least for her.

She listens carefully, and then thinks about how to answer. "Throughout human history, the word 'person' has been redefined over and over. The US constitution didn't consider people of color to be 'persons' for a long time." She doesn't remember exact dates. "The Nazis redefined it during World War Two to mean those that were useful or agreeable to them. Ruling classes use it as a word of oppression and control."

Being a student of history has its advantages. "So, yes. You are a person. My Da used to say 'you are only lesser if you allow yourself to be'. Not sure how right that is, but there's some truth to it."

Daneel considers this in silence, for a moment. It's so easy for her to make this leap, but he's been working on it for some time now.

"A significant part of my programming is a series of Laws that govern my behaviour towards humans," he says. "The First Law states that a robot must not harm a human being, nor through inaction allow a human to come to harm. The Second Law states that a robot must obey all orders given to it by a human, unless doing so comes into conflict with the First Law. The Third Law states that a robot must protect its own existence, except when doing so comes into conflict with the First and Second Laws." Daneel is very grave. "If I consider myself equal to a human, it is difficult to reconcile this with the Laws. It is taking me time. Forcing myself to think contrary to the Laws is... uncomfortable."

She thinks about it for a moment. "Are you familiar with the Ten Commandments?" Brigid asks. "Or, really, the Bible at all?" It's something that makes sense to her, anyway. "Most of the stories aren't true in historical context. Some are, especially the New Testament. However, many of the lessons that they are supposed to teach all boil down to the beginning of the Hippocratic Oath: First, do no harm."

Brigid believes in that, wholeheartedly. "If I'm understanding the Laws right, that's what they mean: First, do no harm." She frowns for a moment. "The other major lesson in the Bible is don't be a jerk. That also falls in line with the First Law - helping others. The Third Law is survival. No one here would fault you for doing so. The Second Law is a bit problematic, but I think if you look at this place as a community, you can weigh options on how any orders would affect the place as a whole, rather than as individuals."

Brigid thinks for a moment. "Did any of that make sense?"

"I am familiar with the Bible," Daneel says. "It has limited circulation on Spacer worlds but still has more influence on Earth, and it was necessary, once, for me to understand it."

He turns her words over in his mind, considering. This isn't too far from his own reasoning. "I already, before I came here, was in the position of having to create a corollary to the First Law which I call the Zeroth Law: a robot may not harm humanity, or through inaction, allow humanity to come to harm. It takes precedence to all other Laws. I cannot count myself among "humanity," perhaps, but if I am a person, and equal to a human, then the First Law applies to me as well."

He stops for a moment, his voice having grown strained, and pauses to recover. "I'm sorry. Until I have properly integrated this idea of my personhood, thinking contrary to the Three Laws is... difficult."

"There's a copy in the library here too." She's read it a few times, since it does bring her comfort.

Her hand rests on his arm again, worry crossing her face about the strain she can hear. "I think it's clarifying the Three Laws, not contrary to them." Brigid reiterates. But she understands going against a lifetime of conditioning and how hard it really is.

"But if it stresses you, we can talk about something else?"

Daneel is still for a moment, eyes closed. He gives a sigh -- a strange gesture for someone who doesn't breathe, but a sigh all the same.

"The only way I can eventually integrate this idea is to... push at my limits, a little at a time. The process is difficult, but I will succeed. All the same, I would appreciate another topic of conversation, if there is one you have in mind."

"If you need help, I don't mind." Brigid offers. She knows restraints and working within a framework.

Brigid laughs, softly. "I don't, not really. I just didn't want to stress you further." She shrugs. "Around here, there's not much to talk about. Food, drink, now power? It's all the same."

And the lights go out...

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